Network and Natter - The Wedding Business Podcast
Network & Natter is the go-to podcast for wedding industry professionals looking to connect, learn, and grow their businesses. Join us for candid conversations and expert insights on everything from social media strategies and branding tips to marketing techniques and booking more clients. Whether you're just starting out or you're a seasoned pro, our community-driven show brings together wedding business owners of all experience levels to share knowledge, offer support, and foster collaboration. Tune in for practical advice, inspiring success stories, and the latest industry trends to help your wedding business thrive. With expert guests and real-world examples, Network & Natter is your weekly dose of wedding business wisdom served with a side of friendly chatter.
Network and Natter - The Wedding Business Podcast
3: Mastering Your Niche with Steph from Handmade Bosses
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Steph from Handmade Bosses takes us on an inspiring journey as she shares her transition from a mundane job to building a flourishing six-figure handmade jewelry empire. As a dedicated business coach, Steph reveals her blueprint for turning costly hobbies into thriving businesses, shedding light on the parallels between the handmade and wedding industries. Her story underscores the importance of finding your niche and remaining true to core values, making her a beacon of inspiration for over 800 students in her Handmade Academy.
Get ready to unlock the secret to business success by embracing specialized niching. We discuss how catering to a smaller, committed audience can yield more profound results than chasing broad appeal.
We also dabble in the art of mastering social media and audience engagement. Discover how to identify your "home hub" for content creation and the wisdom of focusing on one platform before expanding.
Grab a cuppa, get comfortable, and let's dive into this week's episode!
P.S: Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast to be in with a chance to receive a £50 shop voucher for The Wedding Business Network Shop.
Stephs website: www.handmadebosses.com
Stephs Instagram: www.instagram.com/handmadebosses
Building a Strong Brand in Business
Speaker 1Network and Netta wedding industry professionals who want their businesses to grow . Network and Netta we got all the stories and advice that you'd like to know .
Speaker 2Welcome to the cozy corner of the wedding industry . I'm your host , meg , and whether you're a seasoned pro or you're just starting out , it's time to sit down , grab a cuppa and catch up with all our industry friends . Hello everyone , welcome to today's podcast episode . Today , we are joined by Steph from Handmade Bosses . Steph's a handmade business coach , so I just want you to say hello , introduce yourself , let us know a little bit about your journey and how you came to the coaching industry . Hello .
Speaker 3So I am Steph , so my key thing is I help people to take their expensive handmade hobby let's be real , for a lot of people they're trying to start a business , it's not really working . It turns out to be an expensive hobby to a profitable real business , you know . And we can take it to four figures a month , five , six figures a year , whatever feels good to you . That's like kind of my main deal and kind of what I help people along that journey .
Speaker 2So for anyone who doesn't know , me and Steph are business besties , known each other for a few years now , so we can chat for England .
Speaker 3So we've actually got questions set because we'll be here for a while otherwise , I didn't say anything about my journey either , so I feel like I should answer that 's okay , you can .
Speaker 2You can crack on , you can talk about your journey . How did you get here in the first ?
Speaker 3place . Well , I think probably most people here um , I had a crappy job that I hated and a fire in my belly to do something different . Long story short , in a nutshell um , the job was horrific . The boss was abusive . It was just not not hot and , being someone who's always been around jewellery , I've worked in four like high-end jewellery stores .
Speaker 3Jewellery was kind of like my bag . I was like , okay , I don't really vibe with the high-end jewellery thing , so I started to make my own and basically I was like on a mission from that point to make it my full-time gig , to escape the latter named crappy job and fast forward to April 2016 . I did , I went full-time and it grew and grew and grew into like a six-figure business . It was insane . That was on Etsy , that was my own website , and then people started to ask and kind of say , well , now that you mention it , I've got a handmade side thing that I want to make into a proper business and promote it as such and market it and , and you know , have it bringing in some more money and basically from from there , I think I set up a Facebook messenger group chat .
Speaker 3I think this was when Facebook was actually used yeah , and like a few handmade business owners were like in the chat and said hey , you know , you could critique my shop . You have a little look . I was like , of course , so I did , and I did three and I filmed them and they were like an hour and a half long each and like the time just went like that . And I think it's that when you're in the flow moment when you realize , oh , this is what I'm supposed to be , yeah , this is my calling , yeah , so that's pretty well In 2019 , started up a YouTube channel and the rest is from there .
Speaker 2Really , yeah , so you have the Handmade Academy . Your course , your . Hbsa yeah . And how many students have you had in there since launching ? That's a good question .
Speaker 3I think it's hovering around the 800 mark .
Speaker 3Wow I know it's 780 something , something , but I know that a few more have joined , so I think love that . Yeah , around the 800 mark and it is a hive mind sure . I mean you're coaching calls in there every month and it's awesome because there's so many people in there that are right right from the start all the way up to like there's a couple of people in there that are making like six figures a month , um , and it's like everyone like kind of gives as much as they take .
Speaker 2Yeah , I love that and it's fab , it's great . Yeah , we say this a lot because we're , as I said , we're business besties . Voice notes all the time um , might as well turn the voice notes into a bloody podcast ourselves , but um , we , we say a lot , don't we ? That the handmade industry and the wedding industry are very similar in terms of people have started this from a passion and love for what they do and their products and their services . So we do feel like I think that's why I wanted you on , just because I feel like the industries kind of combine together in a way and you're just lovely . Anyway , thanks . Who are you ?
Speaker 2You are today's focus for today's episode , because I'm sure there'll be very many more in the future for us , because we just can chat for england , but we're gonna talk mainly about kind of finding your place in the industry , like your niche and what makes you stand out . Because , just like the handmade industry , the wedding industry can be exactly the same , like there's tons and tons of photographers , tons of florists , tons of cake makers all doing kind of similar things and find a lot of wedding business owners find it hard to stand out from quite a saturated crowd of businesses . So yeah , that's kind of the main aim today is to chat through for that . So generally , just to get started , what kind of like key elements for building that kind of a strong brand or like a really standout brand in business ? What kind of key elements would you say are important ?
Speaker 3Yeah , I'd say the first thing is and this is something that I've got personal experience with very , very recent recently and that is knowing what your core values are . I think people hear core values and they're like oh , that's nice , very like woo , woo , very flouncy and nicey , nicey , but it's actually like a must . At the end of the day , your business is a mirror for your internal world because you're creating . You know everything , your products , your target audience , your . You know the whole lot you are creating from your own headspace , memories , belief . So creating a business that is outside of your core values and doesn't align with that , so it feels gross , it doesn't feel you don't want to work on it because it feels a bit misaligned , it doesn't feel , yeah , icky icky , yeah not authentic , stale .
Speaker 3We've I mean , we've been there before , right , we've all had businesses galore , like we have a history and a lot of that is because of that core value piece , right , and even if you just Google core value list , even just working through the list of core values , highlighting maybe five to 10 and just starting off with that and seeing , okay , how does that fit with me ? What does this core value mean to me , all that sort of stuff . So that's the first thing . I would also say having a vision and having goals . Now , having a vision is great . I think we all we don't start having a business because we are like I just want to make money . I mean , I think we do . There is that .
Speaker 2Money is a part of it , but it's not . It's's the passion , isn't it ?
Speaker 3it's the the love , yeah yeah , it's the difference that you're gonna make um , but I think , having the right goals and again , I've got experience with this recently where , um , I was creating goals , looking at the stuff and things that I want , in order for me to feel that when I make five grand this month , I'm gonna feel joyful , happy , proud and something but it's actually the other way around . We should be looking at how we want to feel first and then , finding the things we want to be , do and have , yeah , support that .
Speaker 3So I think that's an important piece . Well , and usp , your unique selling point or unique selling proposition , depending on what you want to call it yeah , just being unique in just a little bit , and I know that you guys have probably heard usp before . I'm sure we're going to be talking about that a lot , a lot more , but having something about that yeah , that's very good , you're very deep .
Speaker 2I like that the usp thing . I think this is something that I think we've all struggled with , especially when you're starting out or you're new to the business world in general , like a lot of people don't quite understand how unique you have to be or can be . So , yeah , what advice ? If you were sat down in front of a client , business friend and they were really struggling with that , what would you kind of say for them to start with , to kind of finding that usp for them ?
Speaker 3yeah , I think you and me have probably had conversations like this over . Like 20 minute voice notes sounds not right , yeah , but I think the first thing is leaning into that usp . What makes you unique ? Um , it doesn't have to be like you're reinventing the wheel , you've learned how to take wedding pictures , stood on one leg with a clown costume on , like you don't have to be like that , but it's just that , that little thing that makes you different and that kind of goes along with that is also this idea of layered niching . Oh , my god , we've had conversations about niching like so many times is this a good niche ? Is that a good ? And something that I've discovered is that the money and it sounds counterintuitive , I know , but the money is not in being broad at all . Believe me , I've been there , done that a jewelry business owner .
Speaker 3Um , saturated market . I've helped others in that . But layer the niching , um , so don't just be like I target couples . That's far too broad . It should be something like I target couples who want a very small wedding experience , who want to get married in the winter , who are kind of like very gothy brides , like that . Is that like two layers deep , three layers deep . And that , I think , is where a lot of people who are in a saturated niche , such as such , as I mean most wedding venues , you know services , I guess are saturated in some way shape or form . But I think just having that two or three layers deep is where the sweet spot is yeah , yeah .
Speaker 2No , I agree there there are . There's some categories that are so saturated photographers for one , I know they'll if any photographers are listening they'll know the feeling that it is very saturated . So it's finding ways of making you unique and stand out , whether it's like your photography style or that , that kind of thing is it . So , as a business coach , what would you say from experiences and working with clients , what are the things that people are doing wrong in order to stand out like what would you say ? A no-go is like don't do this .
Speaker 3That's not the right way of going around it I , so I I tend to call a spade a spade . Um , when I'm talking about etsy and , uh , you know , when you're doing a search on google for like silver elephant earrings , whatever , it's like endless searches . Your clients are feeling that too , and you do not want to be in the thing that I call the sea of media mediocrity , which is just like everyone and them and their dog is doing this letting cakes photographers . There are far too many business owners that see what others are doing and say I can sell that too or I can do that too , and you absolutely , yes , obviously look at what others are doing , get inspired , get all the feel , but don't be like , don't let that be the limit of how much soul searching and internal digging you do , because that then you end up stopping at a point where you're like , yeah , I'm gonna take pictures too and then that's , then , that's it . You kind of leave it there .
Specialized Niching for Business Success
Speaker 3I think another thing is to serve a smaller audience . So , okay , we talked about the layered niching point of it . Yes , you are not going to get 10 000 instagram followers in like two weeks because it's not broad , it's very , very small . But always remember that it only takes like a hundred to a thousand true , true fans , people that love you , people that are gonna gonna hire you over and over again , recommend you to their friends , their moms , their sisters , their whatever . For you to get to a six figure point yeah , so you're gonna have a smaller audience if you do the layered niching thing , but you're get to a six figure point yeah , so you're gonna have a smaller audience if you do the layered niching thing , but you're gonna build a stronger bond with them . Yeah , that in this day and age , I think , with ai technology zooming past us , that's what people want . Yeah , like an example , I guess here is like a wedding cake maker don't just be someone who makes wedding cakes .
Speaker 2Be someone who is like I'm a , I'm a , I'm a um , a goth wedding specialist , and I make real gothy , unique looking cakes like , yeah , yeah , I think people , I think people get scared of the niching down because they're like , oh my gosh , that means my audience is even smaller and if I haven't got bookings now and I make that audience smaller , it's going to be even harder . But it's the total opposite . Total opposite . It makes life easier , knowing the people you serve and the people that you're searching for or are searching for you . It makes life a lot easier and less overwhelming too , as well .
Speaker 3Yeah , what I like to say , to like demonstrate this point , is I like to think of okay , so when you went and bought a hat from Amazon , ebay , do you remember the actual name of the shop that you bought that hat from ? Probably not , you're like I got it from eBay . But if you went and bought a hat from someone who does like specialist crocheted beret hats with different ears on and colors on I know because I've recently bought a hat with fox ears on which I love , and it's like , okay , you are going to know that brand , you're going to know , you're going to go back there again because they are , they are an expert , a specialist in that particular thing that you're vibing with . So that's where , being a gen , a generalist , and for and for me in my industry , it's when people come to me and say i'm'm a gift shop , I make gifts for people , I'm like no , no , no , no , no , no , no . That's far too broad . We need to like narrow that down a bit .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , because it not only makes it easier for you to sell yourself and market yourself , but it'll be easier for people to find you and know straight away that the content you're putting out there attracts them instantly because they're looking for you in the first place , um , or if they didn't know they needed you in the first place , they'll love the content as soon as they start seeing it . So just yeah , generally for content creation and marketing in general , it's going to be easier for you but also for people to find you as well . Yeah , so , carrying on from when we're talking about the kind of like common mistakes that you see businesses doing , anything else to add ?
Speaker 3I think a big thing and I see this in my uh coaching clients and stuff as well is that I'm going to tell a story now that's going to be horribly recalled . But the point is there and the lesson , and it was a story of a olympic swimmer who was prized to like win , win gold . I can't remember what year , I can't remember the guy's name .
Speaker 3Sorry , sorry about that um I'm not a sporty person so I would butcher it any anyway . But , um , it was this guy who was like yes , we are this , this guy is primed to win gold . Like , he is the fan favorite , everyone's liking for him . And he was like in the lead . In the lead in the lead until the last lap . And the mistake that he made was , even briefly , he looked left and right to see what his like other other people in the pool , what the what they were doing and how fast they were . And he saw that the guy on his right was slightly ahead of him and immediately it just pinged this thing in his head that , gosh , I'm gonna . Immediately it just pinged this thing in his head that gosh , I'm gonna lose . Yeah , and there was no difference in his ability , in his like . Like I said , he was like halfway through his last lap and it was just the fact that he did that side gaze and looked at what other people were doing . That was the only thing that ruined that chance for him .
Speaker 3So when you're at fairs , when you are out and about and seeing people , maybe you're on instagram or facebook and you're scrolling and you see an ad , don't be like oh , my god , that means I'm crap . Oh my god . That means that I don't know what I'm doing . I'm not doing as hot as they are . Yeah , um , don't side eye . Don't look at what others are doing . Do your competitor research in a more analytical , factual way , but don't let it mean anything about you , because the minute you let that in , you've already lost .
Speaker 2Yeah , so true , we , we all do it , don't we ? If we've had a down day or we're having a quiet time , like you've not had any bookings for the last couple of weeks , and you're really starting to worry , all it takes is that one post to look at and see that your I don't know your competitor down the road has just took on three bookings this week and you're like , right , that's it , I'm done . Negative energy flowing through and then you're either like ready to pat the towel in or just you just yeah , you stumble , don't you , and you just then get back , go backwards . That's so true , we all do that . I say that don't follow any negative crap on social media , only let it be positive .
Speaker 3Yeah , I don't know if you know , but , um , instagram have released , or they're testing to release , a way for you to reset your fee . Um , I read this the other day because so many people like I don't know if you , if you've experienced this , but you only get shown those posts of what your competitors are doing because you're in the industry and that's a consume . Yeah , the algorithm is like only feeding you what it thinks you want . Yeah , you're out there thinking the whole world consists of people doing better than you . It's just you and your feed . So , responding to that , instagram have said we're going to , we're going to give you like , a like , a nice reset button so that you can reset things and basically , like , wipe everything that you've seen yeah , because once you've seen one , you do you see more and more , don't you ?
Speaker 2and it's just the algorithm and how it works , annoyingly . But if you're in that negative bit of a crappy mindset in general , feeling a bit worried , stressed out , with like money coming in , bookings etc . It's like the last thing you need and it's like almost like icing on the cake , like definitely don't need it . So , yeah , reset button would be good .
Speaker 3They'll bring that out , yeah and I think as well like you , are never going to find what's unique about you . If you're trying to look to others to guide , yeah , what they're doing is not going to work for you . Which is why I think hiring a coach like you is a good move , because you get to know the person , you get to kind of dig out their hidden x factor before they themselves even even know it yeah , it's hard to see inside your own business , isn't it ?
Speaker 2it's hard to , and we don't big ourselves up enough in general anyway in life , does it ? So when you're trying to kind of like find your own uniqueness in , in business in general and how you are as a person um , we've often done , haven't we ? Like , if we're struggling finding like new things about ourselves , we always ask ourselves like , what do you think about me or what would you say , or how would you describe me in this way ? Because , yeah , you don't always feel that comfortable or confident in talking about yourself in that way , which is sad really . We should be more , more confident , oozing confidence . We are incredible .
Speaker 3I actually have been reading a book . Um well , that's no surprise to you , because I'm always like I'm reading a book that says this bookworm and it , and it's well . No , because I don't actually read it . I do audio . Yeah , and it was a book . I can't remember what the actual quote was , but it was something along the lines of as women , because it was a book about women in business and kind of how we , how we , how we chop ourselves down rather than build ourselves up .
Speaker 3So if you are a woman , I didn't identify as such listen up . If you're not sorry , this might still include . Include you . So still listen up . Yeah , but it was .
Speaker 3It was always like , as , as women , we are taught to be good students that when we're in school , we only please the authority figures around us , which is teachers , head teachers , heads of forms , head girl , head boy , whatever . We don't actually learn how to please ourselves and it's not something that's taught . It's not like getting in touch with our preferences , our intuition , whatever is not something that's taught . No , um , and it's a bit like our driving test . It doesn't really teach you how to drive and I I knew how to drive at like eight , eight years old , but like the actual , okay , you now officially can drive , yeah , uk roads .
Speaker 3It's very , it's very different , um , and we're not out here like driving like this with our hands on 10 and 2 , still checking our mirrors every like five seconds . We're not doing that . You're taught how to pass a test , not how to be a fun , a functional driver , and it's kind of like the same with life . It kind of fits in with what we do , I think , as female business owners is sometimes we people please , at the detriment of being able to find what our usp is and stand out and have that layered niche yeah , I think having having a business friend , business coach , will make a world of difference for for USP or just generally finding your niche and where you sort of feel like you stand best in in the industry .
Speaker 2Um , yeah , business bestie all the way . I love that . I know , I know it's gonna be a lovey-dovey one , oh dear , okay . So what would you recommend to someone who's feeling quite overwhelmed with the process , so they feel comfortable what their , how they stand out in their usp , but kind of where do they go from from there , like how do they take that into their platforms or wherever they're choosing to market their business ?
Speaker 3um , basically it's a , it's a concept that I teach and it's finding your home hub um and it is like I firmly believe that there are far too many social media platforms email list , uh x . You've got Facebook , you've got Instagram , you've got TikTok , you've got Snapchat , you've got LinkedIn , and and you feel like you've got to be one yeah and you end up not doing any of them very ,
Social Media Strategy and Audience Engagement
Speaker 3very well .
Speaker 3I've got a podcast episode actually about it . Um , let me find what number it is before I start yapping on about something that no one has any idea . And it talks about finding your home , your home hub , and kind of how to find it . Okay , uh , let me .
Speaker 2What I'll do is I'll link it in the um . Yeah , because in the description . So , uh , once you've listened to this one , then make a note and save it and you can go and have a listen to sass podcast yeah , I mean , it's not , it's , it's .
Speaker 3It's a really nice , like just stand alone thing . And if you don't buy it with the pod , with the podcast , listen to it , bugger , bugger off , it's fine , I won't be offended . I'll put it in the description . If you'd like to listen , then bugger off . Yeah , gives you permission , um , but it's just , it's a really nice . It's a nice in-depth way of like talking about about it , rather than me yapping for like 45 minutes about yeah but it's just finding that one place , which is number one , a place that you enjoy and like yourself .
Speaker 3Number two , it's where your target audience is and where they actually hang out . And number three , it's a place that supports the kind of content that you want to make yeah there is no point um being on a platform that supports and kind of says you have to be doing short form video content if that's not your vibe . Yeah , this is why we love instagram right , because it gives you a wide choice yeah , not so much .
Speaker 2Yeah , and the audience thing that that hits home so much . The amount of clients I've worked with . They're like I've spent the last two years building up my I don't know instagram page and I'm just not getting anything through . And then , once we actually work on their audience and figure out , like , their age range and where they are it's because they're hanging out on facebook ? Yeah , it's like you need to figure out , yeah , yes , what you love , but also where your audience is . There's no point in dedicating so much time and energy and effort when your audience aren't even hanging out there anyway .
Speaker 3So that's a really big one , yeah and and just one , just one master one first , that could take you six months , it could take you 12 months , could take you 12 years yeah after that , one place first , if someone says , oh , are you on linkedin , are you on snapchat , just say no , sorry , but here's my in my instagram . They're not going to be like oh , okay , I'm not going to work with you because you're my favorite . You know what I mean .
Speaker 2No one does that so yeah , I think , yeah , if your audience , if you've got your audience down to a T and know where they hang out , then just be there , focus on that , because you just spread yourself too thin , you stress out , you procrastinate it , you get nothing done , just become overwhelmed and just don't enjoy social media in general or marketing in general . Not just social media , but yeah , anything else you'd recommend for overwhelmed-ness .
Speaker 3The only thing I can recommend is shameless plug . But I'm from the 13th to the 17th of January , there is a social media critique week which I'm , which I'm doing , which is really for , like , handmade , product-based business owners . So I know that maybe a lot of you might not vibe with that , um , but it's definitely something that , if you're like I , I would love someone live like , critique my stuff and just tell me what I'm doing wrong , and it might be worth uh , yeah along to yeah , so if they're listening to this after the 13th and 17th of January 2025 , what other methods could they work with you or anything that you've got like products , digital wise online that you could help them with well ?
Speaker 3I think if you are someone who's in the wedding industry and you're like a service based , I think if you go to the wedding business network and go on to your um , you've got some templates I might yeah yeah , in the shop , yeah , so I .
Speaker 3So I would say that would be a really , really good place . Just have a little nosy . I've also got the sms , which is the social media sidekick , which is like for handmade product based business owners , and it's basically where , for less than the price of a fancy , starbucks , hot chocolate , hot chocolate which is like a tenner . Now can you believe ? I know , don't talk to me about starbucks stop then , uh , we can do your social media for you essentially . So , um , yeah , there's like kind of like two there yeah , yeah .
Speaker 2There's a lot out there in the world that can help , isn't there ? It's just knowing what works best for you and what's going to be most beneficial , isn't it , I think ?
Speaker 3another thing I will add if , if , if you're like , if you're saying , no , I don't do any of that is the best piece of advice that I can give in like a very give me a hack way is uh , do the t content . Which is like , if you think of like a cap , a capital t , you've got the , the bar across and you've got the bar going down . The bar across is going wide content . So that's the kind of stuff where you want to bring new people in , you want to reach more people , hence the horizontal bar right of the top of the of the T . If you're listening to this and you're like what , the stalk of the T is the going deep . And that is kind of the kind of content where , no , you're not gonna reach like 100,000 people , you're just not , not , but it's there to nurture the people that you've already got . Yeah , so t going wide , going deep . Those are the two types of content pieces that I would say just start off some kind of strategy with yeah , okay , I've not heard of that before .
Speaker 3I love that I think I've heard of it before , but in other contexts . Yeah , like the 80 20 rule , but I've not heard anyone talking about it in no social media , so I so I was like , oh , that could work yeah , 80 , yeah , yeah , the 80 , 20 things are definite .
Speaker 2But yeah , not the , the t , but it doesn't . Yeah , it
Effective Social Media Marketing Strategies
Speaker 2makes sense . So when you say like the wide , reaching wide for new people or new audience and then going deep with the current ones that you have , what kind of examples could you give for , like I don't know posts or something like ?
Speaker 3that . So , um , off the top of my head , let's say you've got a wedding photographer right , so going wide would be content that is very consumable . Um , very quick to kind of go , oh , oh , yeah , that's good , funny , witty and entertaining things that people can watch quickly and kind of immediately decide if they're vibing with it or not . So things like quotes quotes for me always do really really well things like funny memes that you change to kind of be more catered towards the audience . So , like for a wedding photographer , um , maybe it's something like a meme of you know , boo from monsters inc . Yeah , she's like crying and it's that meme .
Speaker 3That's like going around , maybe something like that , where she's holding , like I don't know some , some lights and it and and the caption is like I don't know um , wedding photographers in in the winter because the sun goes at like three . Yeah , it's just like a funny thing for you to share , um , but it's that kind of stuff that is designed to bring new people in , whereas going deep is more stuff that , like I said , you're you , you know you're , it's not . It's not stuff that new people would really vibe with , but it's things like nurturing . The people have already talking about past experience , experiences talking about , uh , your worst customer , your best , why you love what you do , your journey , a new camera , that you've got some new equipment , anything like that yeah , some more personal things and more like behind the scenes , to like it's that connection , isn't it , that makes them resonate with you and keep remembering you .
Speaker 2So when someone does come to book you for the wedding , then they remember you straight away .
Speaker 3Yeah , yeah , yeah , makes sense . Also , one thing I I will say is I really just want everyone listening , watching whatever to this , to to please stop thinking the goal is going viral oh , I think I need to do a podcast episode .
Speaker 3Just yeah , you do , you do , it's driving me , nuts , believe me , like , going viral sucks , sucks , like . I've gone viral a couple , a couple of times and it's been more trouble than it's worth because you , you , you end up getting a bunch of people that have no interest . Yeah , what you're doing and what that does is it drags down your engagement rate . So if you go into flanks p , h , a , p , h , l , a , n , x , um , they've got an engagement rate calculator that you put your instagram name in and it tells you um and like , literally after going viral , mine tanked and it hasn't really come back up since .
Speaker 2Yeah , you don't really want to go viral , you really don't , yeah because you cannot control yes , it might be a wedding related , I don't know real , or something that's gone viral , but you can't actually control whether the people that are then following you on from that is is even interested in your services and they're then going to not interact with your post then after .
Speaker 2And then , yeah , engagement tanks and stuff . We had one in um , when the big southwest wedding fair was the wedding forum , the post where it was the most awful bridesmaid dresses and we did like I don't know , it was like a collage of like 20 different styles that we just grabbed from like google . I did it because we didn't have any content coming out and I just thought , oh , it'd be funny . And it hit like six , seven million people and the shares were crazy and I think we went from like 8,000 likes to like 18,000 likes within . It just went crazy . But it then it took us ages to get back to normal engagement rates because our engagement tanked , because people are following us . And then , yeah , so I've experienced it as well as it seems great because you're like , oh , my post has just gone viral .
Speaker 3Oh , but actually it doesn't mean a thing If you get five new people every single week who follow you , who are interested in what you have to to to sell the service , whatever . Yeah , that is a win in my book . Um , rather than five , five thousand people who don't ? Really care , couldn't care less what you say , what you do um and who will end up unfollowing you in like a month's time .
Speaker 2Yeah , and I think , like you said earlier at the start , like you could have , you only need like a hundred or a thousand top fans as such , don't you , that are really dedicated to you , rant and rave , and you've had them as a bride , but they still follow you and they share your stuff whenever they can and to make like a decent business and make decent money . It's no different than if you had a shop , like a physical shop , in town and you had 20 people walk in and all bought something . You'd be buzzing , whereas you're then concerned about only having 20 likes on your post when you've got x amount of followers and that's the end of the world like I mean it's just yeah , I think social media makes us over analyze or overthink .
Speaker 2I don't know you . You don't see the real , true perspective of it , do you sometimes ? I think you can overthink . I don't know you . You don't see the real , true perspective of it , do you sometimes ?
Speaker 3I think you can overthink the numbers yeah , I think , especially for um wedding business owners who are probably sat there thinking , yeah , but that's different for a product base , because someone could buy everything that a product base business sells newsflash they don't . They never do , which is normal , by the way but I think if you have a service such as cakes , photographer , whatever I think the most important part for you guys is that going deep , because the recommendations that come off of someone who is is going that extra mile to make sure that you're comfortable , to make sure everything's hunky-dory , to just be that amazing person that that couple need around that time is definitely a one-way ville to them recommending to all their friends . Okay , you need to go with this person , go with that person .
Speaker 2Yeah , going deep side of that is really , really important I agree and I think I probably say I'll probably say this on every single podcast episode but the fact that the wedding industry is so different in terms of marketing and because you're a photographer , a wedding planner , they're with them from the morning when you wake up , right through till you cut the cake and you do your first dance .
Speaker 2I mean you've got to have that deep sort of connection and trust with them for them to consider even inquiring with you and then learning to get to know you before they even book . So the the deep part of the tea I think is so important if you're getting married and you're looking for like a cake maker , for example , I'm probably more interested in joan down the road , who has done a handful of cakes , but they're so dedicated and talented and in comparison to someone who's gone viral that have done a I don't know like a celebrity cake wedding . It's a different type of different type of marketing . I think when it comes to wedding business owners , it's more about the connection and feeling that , that like trust and that level of like . I can picture you stood next to me in my wedding dress helping me cut the cake kind of like vibe rather than the top of the tea . It's good to get traction from the top of the tea , isn't it like getting people in and attracting them ?
Speaker 3but it's actually the , the deepness that yeah , it's kind of like , um , I don't know why this pop , this popped into my head . I think it's because I've been watching the unbreakable kimmy schmidt on net , on netflix and okay , and it came , and it came up with that episode where she goes and sees a plastic surgeon and um , it's kind of like if you are looking for something like that whether it be a plastic surgeon , whether it be an actual surgeon , I don't know whatever it's kind of like you aren't going to go and find the one that's gone viral online , are you ? You're going to go to one that you trust and you know and that's come recommended to you . So it's kind of like the .
Speaker 3The goal for you guys watching listening to this right now is not to go viral .
Speaker 2Trust us when we say it's not , yeah it does not make a diddly squat difference at all . You might get a few more followers , but nine times out of ten they're probably not genuine people there , even in your area , or looking to get married anyway . Just just don't . As long as you're creating content to either nurture your current followers or find ones that are the right people , then that's your aim of the game . Don't worry about numbers or metrics and shit like that , because it's just not important .
Speaker 2I think that puts less pressure on people as well , because they might post something and it gets like 100 views on a reel or 100 people . If you had people at like a wedding fair and you had 100 people look at your stand and look at your stand and go , I like that enough to stick around for you to get a view on on instagram or facebook or whatever , you'd be happy with that . Don't look at the numbers . Think of the actual . They've seen my stuff . They'll either follow me from that or they'll start seeing more of my stuff and that's when they'll try and like , interact and book me something .
Speaker 2It's yeah , it's more about the importance of the content rather than the numbers . That's it . Yeah , we've gone a little bit off topic , but it's all relevant . Oh , yeah , it's all relevant . Relevant . So for people that are struggling to kind of target their , like , their niche markets . They say someone's decided they're a florist , who I don't know , focuses on dried flowers only for , like , bouquets , decor and stuff like that . Now they've kind of found their niche and they found their like USP . How would you , what would you recommend them to then start I don't know creating content or knowing what content to put out there into the world to start attracting the right market rather than being really broad .
Understanding and Profiling Target Audience
Speaker 3Your home , your homework , for anyone that's in this boat , is to know your target audience freakishly well like inside out , stalkified , stalkified .
Speaker 3I want you to profile them . Um , I want you to take all of your netflix , crime documentary knowledge and I want you to , like , put it into into knowing who your target audience is . Yeah , um , and that is not just because I do get this a lot where people like , oh , yeah , okay , I think I think I know them . Um , I've been on instagram , I've stalked their profiles I think they're X , y , z . But the next layer to this is to actually speak to them , like , hop on a Zoom with them , meet them in person at your next fair , ask them questions , get to know them , write notes , write bullet points .
Speaker 3And this is where , like for me and my audience , doing craft fairs although you're not probably going to make a lot of money from them , uh , because most craft fairs are like very , very , very very you know , what you do get is you get in that invaluable experience , uh , with knowing who they are and what they like and what they don't like yeah so it's .
Speaker 3It's kind of like that whole thing right , where , if you're in a plane and it goes even one degree , off course you're going to end up in new york rather than halifax , like you're not going to get to where you need to go , so very early on , um , and if you're still like a year , in two years , in three years , and , don't worry , you've got time to just find out who that person is yeah , yeah .
Speaker 2I always say to my clients I want you to be able to know your audience so well that you walk into a room of like 10 different couples and you talk to all of them and you write down the names of the ones that you know they're going to pick you and vice versa . You should be able to be stood at a wedding fair and talk to your couples and know within a few minutes whether they're the right people for you . So , know what questions to ask , know what kind of vibe they give off their interests , what they're not interested in , like . Know those kind of questions that you need to know , um , in order to know whether you're , like a . I'm not sure if we're the right fit or yes , let's go for it .
Speaker 3It's like a deal or no deal .
Speaker 2Target audience yeah , it is . I feel like a lot of people go oh no , just all , it's the same as the niche thing , isn't it that ? Oh , I just want to speak to everyone and I want to book everyone and this , that and the other , but it's not when you're trying to speak to everyone , it you're just not going to get anywhere . No , it's going to be paddling and no , don't skip it .
Speaker 3Don't , don't skip it . I know it's boring , I know it's frustrating , I know it's one of those things that you're like , but how do I know if I've got it right ? How do I ? How ? Do I figure this out . It's something that you have to do . It's kind of like what business ? Like 29 page business plans were back in like the early noughties .
Speaker 2It's kind of like that level of yeah , but you have to do it because it will literally be the foundations of everything yeah , I think it's got to feel naturally authentic to you and what you love and how you want to run your business , but also and it can develop over time like everyone changes their businesses over time because they learn what works and what doesn't , and what they love and what they don't love , and there are elements that can change . But it's having that like set target audience in mind , set usp , and then it's something for you to work on and focus and grow on . Was there anything you wanted to add about that ? Because we did start talking about how to target people if they were struggling , wasn't it ? Was there anything else you wanted to add for ?
Speaker 3um , I think , like because I know that it's going to be a lot , a lot of people who are struggling to find their target audience , who they are as a business owner , who they , who they want to ideally work with , and I think a really good piece of advice that everyone always resonates with is that your target audience is probably a previous version of you , um , or someone that you know really , really well . It's probably because you've had that experience yourself , that's put it in your head and made you go . Huh , I wonder if I could be the personal thing that solved that issue . So , for you guys , it's kind of like okay , when I was at my sister's wedding , when I got married myself , when you know , was there something missing that ? Then I decided that I wanted to fulfill that need , that need , yeah , back to where you were . Then , um , it could be five years ago , 10 years ago , 20 years ago , 50 years ago , whatever . Think back to then and kind of be like okay , uh , what did I need then that I'm trying to be for others ?
Speaker 2now , yeah , and it will help shape your well , your business and your services as well , won't it ? So , before we wrap things up for today's episode , as a business coach , I would like you to give some little takeaways , sprinkle some little key takeaways for any wedding business owners that are here .
Speaker 3Okay , never stop working on clearing out the head demons , because it is that new level , new devil where , at every , every turn because our amygdala is always looking out for threats it's always trying to keep us safe . It's what I call our lizard brain wants to keep you in your comfort zone once saved , because it thinks that if you are in your comfort zone you'll stay alive . Yeah , some circumstances , yes , you will , but you'll be bored , stiff . So so always recognize when those negative thought patterns start cropping , cropping up . Uh , learn to interrupt the pattern . That could be things like eft tapping if you've not heard of it , it's , google it , you'll find it um , or affirmations , something to interrupt that pattern and make you stop and think . It can even be like a post-it note where you're like you are not crap , you are brilliant , and it just stops you from being like I'm not going to spiral .
Speaker 3That's the first thing . Hire someone to help you when you have big dreams and I know , obviously we're both coaches and you're probably sat there thinking well , of course you're going to say that , but we are not out to unnecessarily sell , we are out to help people , to help you guys , and at to unnecessarily sell . We are out to help people , to help you guys , and at the end of the day , we are talking from our own experience of wasting hundreds of thousands of pounds , wasting probably hundreds of hundreds of thousands of hours doing things that we shouldn't have done and that could all have been avoided if we had someone on our team , on our side , alongside us holding our hand and helping . So that's the second thing . And the third thing is stop caring what other people think .
Speaker 3Um , people are , they care more about themselves than they do about you , which sounds horrible and like I'm literally deafening the human race . But , um , a lot of people I think too many people a lot of you guys right now are probably too scared to post about your business in case your friends or your family or your aunt june sees it and judges you at the end of the day , at that moment , aunt june is probably more worried about her bra that doesn't fit right , her scraggly , greasy hair that she has to wash and what she's having for dinner later . She's not really giving a crap about what you , what you're doing . She might judge , she might think away about it , but it will be such a fleeting moment that it doesn't matter and really it shouldn't matter to you either yeah , it's not .
Speaker 2It's not their life , it's your life . You're doing what you love .
Speaker 3It's none of your business . What people think about you is what I like to sort of say very true , love that okay .
Speaker 2So fun questions to end with . If you were to choose a job in the wedding industry , so a particular category , job role , what would it ?
Speaker 3be and why . Okay , I know exactly what I would be and I know exactly why I would be that . But first of all I need you to tell me do you remember when phoebe got married in friends and monica was her wedding planner with , like , yeah , I would be that you so would as well , I would , I would . I'd be like go people go , go , go , like that that level . Yeah , that would be that you so would , as well I would . I would . I'd be like go people go , go , go , like that that level . Yeah , that would be me for sure . 100% .
Speaker 2Wedding planner . I can just picture it now . I think I might put on the podcast episode . I might put you on Monica's body with a little headset on . Oh my God want that . I want that . That has to happen , love it , okay . Um , and then let us all know one unknown , although I'll probably know it personally .
Speaker 3But um , one unknown fun fact about . I've got two . Because I feel like the first one's a bit of a cop a cop out , I'll go for it . I have adhd , as you probably could tell . The second fact is I had two sets of baby teeth , two sets of baby teeth two , see I even , I even fooled you there , yeah I didn't know that , yeah yeah , um , caused by , uh , I had too much fluoride because I used to swallow toothpaste until I was about eight .
Speaker 3Um , because I just couldn't be bothered to , and it tasted nice , because they used to buy , like the kiddie , stuff that tasted like strawberry . So me , being my greedy self , was like , yeah , so the teeth you've got now are still baby teeth . No , no , they're adult teeth . But I had two sets , so I had , um , yeah , so I had , um , one set that fell out . And then I went to the dentist and I had to have like eight fillings because , like I , I used to eat a lot of sugar I still do , but you know . And then I , I went under and he did it and he was like these are not adult teeth , like these are another set of baby teeth . We did an x-ray and we could see the next set coming through and I was like what so ? Um , baby shark was a song named after me . No , I'm joking . So the tooth fairy gave me like two , two pounds rather than one , which I was very happy about . I basically bankrupted my parents . Yeah , right , with the teeth that I were just shedding .
Speaker 2See you even making great money when you were young , I know I know , I'm always an entrepreneur .
Speaker 3It's , it's in my body . Even my body was like , yeah , hang on , what can I get out of me that makes more money ? I'm I'm the kind of person that if I like , donated I don't know something or other it would just grow back . I swear yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah , it's funny . Well , thank you very much , of course , for joining me . I'm sure you'll be back again soon . There were so many times in this podcast we were like that's another subject for another day , Because we will be here for hours .
Speaker 3Yeah , no , of course , I love it , I love it , I love , I love yapping .
Speaker 2We love a chit chat . We talk so much on voice notes , we might as well turn it into a podcast , so that's it . That's it Anyhow . We'll catch up soon . Yeah , thank you very much for having me . Bye-bye .